Episode # 46: Interview with Bijoy John

Curious why your nights feel like a restless maze? Dr. John, the sleep maestro with 25+ years under his belt, unveils the 7 Proven Sleep Strategies in "Nobody's Sleeping." Join us today as we unlock the path to blissful slumber!

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Show Notes:

• Dr. Bijoy John discusses the importance of building a routine for better sleep.

• Electronic devices, especially in bed, are discouraged for better sleep quality.

• Techniques like meditation, prayer, and diaphragmatic breathing are recommended.

• The gradual nature of the sleep process is likened to a dimmer switch.

• Dr. Bijoy John advises starting the bedtime routine by 6 p.m. for optimal results.

• The concept of vivid imagination is introduced for a positive pre-sleep mindset.

• The order of activities before bedtime is discussed, emphasizing calming the body first.

• Home sleep studies are preferred for diagnosing sleep disorders like sleep apnea.

• The significance of short naps (15-30 minutes) for healthy individuals is highlighted.

Key Takeaways:

• Establishing a consistent sleep routine starting around 6 p.m. enhances sleep quality.

• Avoiding electronic devices in bed and adopting calming activities contribute to better sleep.

• Techniques like meditation, prayer, and diaphragmatic breathing aid in preparing for sleep.

• Treating sleep as a gradual dimmer switch process improves overall sleep quality.

• Home sleep studies offer a convenient and accessible method for diagnosing sleep disorders.

• Short naps of 15-30 minutes can be beneficial for overall health and well-being.

Transcript:

Today, I'm so excited to have Dr. Bijoy John on as a guest, practicing sleep specialist with over 25 years

of experience. by teaching folks how to sleep better. And he's actually devised the seven proven sleep

strategies for better health. And happiness. And he recently published a new book called Nobody's

Sleeping, which is available to pre order.

So today we're going to be talking about how to sleep. Better. So welcome, Dr. John.

Thanks, Cari. I'm so excited to be on your show. Let's go.

All right. Excellent. I'm so excited to have you here and, and I know you've been doing your work for a

long time with specifically sleep related issues.

Yeah. Correct. You know, my background is pulmonary critical care and sleep. I did that for several years,

25 years. And then finally, I, you know, three, four years ago, I said, I'm going to just focus on sleep

because it is a very underrepresented, underappreciated, yet it is the superpower that once you get it

and you know how you can use it, you can conquer the world.

I said, that's going to be my passion and that's what I'm taking into the world. Yeah. So you're seeing, I

mean, a lot of people walking around not getting enough sleep. Correct. And how, yeah. Sleep, sleep

problems don't hurt and they don't grow like cancer. So people put it away, but 10 years of this problem

adds up and it affects all parts of our body.

You know, it affects your heart, blood pressure, diabetes, cognition, you know, one of the treatable

causes of dementia is, you know, uh, conditions like sleep apnea. You are in a brain fog, you're not

retaining, you call in sick, it's, it's got all kinds of effects. Um, So once you recover or reclaim this

superpower of sleep and then the sky's the limit for everybody.

I want everybody to be the better version of themselves by discovering this secret that's been with us for

all these years. Yes. And so what are some commonalities that you have seen when it comes to getting

better sleep? So you, you think better, your process is better, your, you know, uh, you know, brain is a

complicated process.

It gives me a rest. When it's completely shut down and rest, it is more rejuvenated and powerful, right?

You're able to think better. You know, your memory is better. It's better consolidated. You better become a

better student. You are, you know, you have this radiant energy. You're not, yeah. Operating from a sleep

debt.

So, you're tired, you know, you're cognizant, several studies in cognition, your cognition is poor, you're

able to focus, you're able to achieve what you plan to achieve by sleeping more, even in a shorter period

of time. See, people, uh, cut down on their sleep, and then, you know, every, let's, let's say you lose one

hour of sleep every, every night, in a week, you've lost one whole night of sleep, you know, it adds to

seven, eight hours.

So, you're operating on a sleep debt. Yeah. And so like, what would you say, cause I know, um, I've even

had a guest talk about this not too long ago, but just like in terms of how much sleep in general we need.

And then also I want to throw this in there about the type of sleep that we need, like breaking it down

even to that, like understanding a little bit more about REM sleep and all of that.

Yes. You know, let us know about this. All right. The common question I get asked, so people ask me,

how much sleep do you need? Typically for adults, we need about seven to eight hours. Children and of

course babies need a lot more sleep. You know, teens require about eight hours, you know, small, you

know, kindergarten, those ages.

Children need about, you know, 14 hours, so it's a little bit higher every, uh, you know, uh, you know,

when you're young, but adults need about 7 to 8 hours. Sleep has two types. It's called non REM sleep

and REM sleep. In, uh, non REM sleep is divided into stages 1, 2, and 3, and REM is divided into phasic

and tonic.

Very complicated, yet very simple. You know, each cycle is about 90, uh, minutes, and we have about 4

cycles per night. So we enter sleep through non REM sleep. The deeper sleep or the sweet sleep. is

stage three non REM sleep. That's what you need. And of course we need REM. REM is very chaotic.

It's almost being awake, but we need REM to heal ourselves, meaning all the conflicts.

That's when we dream, you know, we resolve the personal conflict. So it's, it's, it's good for all our psyche

and a lot of, uh, you know, psychiatric illnesses have a problem with REM sleep. Content. So how you

feel depends on how much sweet sleep you get or stage 3 non REM sleep. And, and some people are

gifted like Elon Musk and the previous, our previous presidents.

They don't sleep much. They are called short sleepers. But most of us don't have that genetic lottery. We

all need more. So to answer the question in another way, How you feel the next day is the most

important. If you slept seven, eight hours and you feel great, you're great. So if you sleep more and

you're still tired, then there is a problem.

You with me? Yeah. So that's a good question. So if you sleep more, let's say you get nine to 10 hours,

what do you feel like you don't need 12? Do you need less? Or what, what does that mean? So people

are sleeping longer trying to get to, you know, the stages of sleep. So you don't need more than for sure

adults don't need more than eight hours of sleep.

But if you're sleeping longer, you have a sleep disorder like sleep apnea or you have a sleep disorder like

hypersomnia where you require more sleep. So you are, you know, if you sleep more than. 7 and a half,

8 hours, and you're still tired, you for sure have a sleep problem. Interesting. That's the first time I've

heard that.

Correct. So you shouldn't really need 7 to 8 hours sleep. And does that apply for a woman over 40? So

women's sleep is very nuanced. Women are poor sleepers by nature because of many reasons. Uh, and

then when perimenopause happens, it's done. You know, when the estrogen loss is hard on women and

they lose their sleep.

You know, my mom taught me how to sleep. So I'm passionate about sleep. Uh, so women go in, uh, you

know, all the women in my life, my, my, my daughter and my wife and my in laws. All of them don't sleep

because of the different stages, you know, when, when you're a young woman, you know, the monthly

changes with your hormone, you know, uh, that affects the quality of sleep, uh, then, you know, of

course, of course, exposure to the social media, you know, uh, women and young girls seems to be more

affected by the effects of the social media.

That's a separate topic, but. It's tough. And then parenting in adulthood, you know, being a parent, you

know, several nights, my children have come home and I'm, you know, I'm fast asleep, but my way, did

you know, my son came in? So, as caregivers, you're more hyper vigilant. So just by that role, you are

not sleeping well, of course.

Most of my patients, uh, who come to my clinic with sleep problems, especially insomnia are women

because of that, that, and life happens, you know, tragedies happen, uh, that worsens the sleep. You're

already predisposed and all these things happen. And then women are protected from sleep apnea

because of the estrogen.

But when perimenopause happens, you lose that protection. And now you have. Another sleep problem

is sleep apnea plus the background and insomnia. So women say women are not very good sleepers by

nature. Right. And so, because I had heard that, um, and I get that by the way, so, but I'd heard that

women over 40 are going through the perimenopause menopause stage that we need more like nine or

10 hours sleep.

And that's, and I was, no. Okay. You don't need it. You don't need it. You're, you're at risk now for sleep

apnea. So that's what's happening. Uh, to most women impaired. So when the estrogen loss things sag,

especially the back of the throat causes an obstruction. So you have obstructive sleep apnea.

Perimenopausal, uh, women's risk for sleep apnea is same as, uh, as a man at that time. Okay, and so

just, I have a question, but I want to take it a step back for a second. You say that the sweet spot is the

stage three non REM. That's where the deep sleep is. How much of that do we need? And then, and how

much of the other type of REM sleep do we need that heals our consciousness?

It sounds like in, in psych, psychiatric. things and where we dream. Yeah, break that down. Yeah, stage

one, roughly we have, we go through about 10 to 15. Stage two is the big one, you know, that's the

transition. So it's about 45 to 50. And then the rest of the 50 percent is stage, you know, stage three,

that's about 25%, 20 to 25 percent we need.

And same with REM sleep, we need 20 to 25. Okay, so 20 to 25%. We need the non REM stage three.

Okay. Stage three, okay. And then 20 to 25 of them, uh, REM sleep. And so how do we, I know, I think it

may even say that on a Fitbit app is, I mean, how do we monitor that? I mean, could we use an app like

that or, I know, how do we know?

So, that's a very common question. How do you get the sweetest sleep? The easy answer is sleep

deprivation. See, I used to be on call at night. I'm on call the next night and the next night I'm sleeping

and and of course you get a lot of uh, You know the the sweet sleep But you know some people who

have stress in their life They go through a lot of non REM sleep, which is even though you sleep eight

hours You're going to spend about four hours more than 50 percent of That in REM sleep, you're not

resting because your mind is constantly, that's what a lot of people wake up and say, man, I slept to eight

hours.

I'm still tired. What's going on with me? And there are a few people who sleep the exact six or seven

hours they sleep because they got that 20 to 25 percent of the non REM sleep that they need and

working out having, um, you know, in fact, as, as easy as eating a good meal, uh, the low glycemic meal

before hours prior, uh, an exercise regimen.

Like about four, you know, I tell people, we'll talk about my sleep now strategy, uh, you know, four hours

prior, good exercise routine, eating a low carb meal four hours prior. Those are some of those things that

will help us to get that, uh, stage three sleep. Yeah. So yeah. So definitely I've heard that exercise and

know that to be true is helpful for perceiving and getting that routine, which is awesome movement.

So, so just taking it with the food, what, so let's say we go to sleep, let's say, let's say at 10 o'clock. Yes.

Do we, you said four hours. Do we eat our meals? When, when should we be eating our meal? So it's a

preparation to go to bed, you know, by, we should be done eating by around 8 PM. And the last meal

should not be high glycemic, uh, uh, food, you know, it should not be like a, and also full meal, you know,

you don't want to have a full stomach and, and you should stop also drinking by 8 p.

m. because, you know, alcohol will also, uh, you know, alcohol metabolizes into acetaldehyde, which

wakes you up, you know, um, so, and I will focus on a low glycemic food, uh, and not a big meal for my

dinner. Okay, so about two hours before we go to bed, we should end or start our last meal. Be done

with, uh. Be done.

Because, uh, the food stays in the stomach for about, you know, 60 to 120 minutes. So you, you want,

you want the food to be left in the stomach, uh, because otherwise you're at risk for acid reflux and you

go distended. You don't want all that. And then low carb, low glycemic foods. Correct. Yes. And, um, is it

okay to eat higher protein?

Yes. Okay. But not, not too much of high protein because when you, uh, digest, it takes a lot of heat to

digest that, uh, the big, you know, like if you have a steak, you feel you're so full and it takes a lot of

energy and the higher energy, the end product of that process is high heat and that's not good for your

sleep because melatonin is only secreted when the temperature is low within our bodies.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. So that's hard to gauge because, like, for me, I like to eat a high protein meal. That

fills me up. But not, not a lot, a lot of food. Okay. You know, you can, you can do that during lunch, but

you don't want to have a high protein and a large voluminous meal, uh, closer to dinner. If you had it a

little earlier, would that be better?

That's probably better. Yes. Okay. If you can eat a big, big, big meal around, you know, six, uh, you won't

have four hours of complete freedom for your body as you prepare. Awesome. So there's some give and

take there. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the balance. You know, what you have, you have to have a

balance.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting. So yeah, two hours before that makes sense. And then, so we hear a

lot about, um, I know over the years I've heard the value, I'm curious to hear what you say about this,

getting into a sleep routine. What are your thoughts? What does that entail? What do we need to be

doing?

Perfect. You're leading into my, uh, my seven proven strategies. I think let's go ahead and run with it if

that's okay with you. All right. So the seven proven strategies when I wrote my book, that's my subtitle.

My daughter, you know, who's a law student, she said, Dad, we need an acronym. So I just formed an

acronym so everybody can write this down.

I mentioned a lot in my book. Uh, it's called sleep. Now. Acronyms. So, S L E E P, N O together, and W.

Sleep now. Are you guys ready? So that makes N O is together, so that makes seven, seven letters. So

let's go with, uh, yes, S is the schedule in the, in the sleep. So we all have to have a schedule. The best

schedule is before you sleep between 10 p.

m. and 6 p. m. That should be your, um, you know, your general rule on an everyday basis, you know,

you know, I hang out with my kids, party, all right, let's hang, but, you know, but I'm always coming back

to 10 to 6, so, and you should start preparing for the good sleep by around 6 p. m., so we have to have

Uh, schedule what happens with my insomnia patients, they go to bed around 10, they can't sleep till

midnight, guess what they do?

They go to bed earlier, and now you're struggling from 9 to 12, you're struggling in bed for 3 hours, right?

So, for insomniacs, if you were, if you go to bed by 10 and are not able to fall, Fall asleep by midnight,

go to bed closer to midnight, 11: 30. But you have to wake up at 6. So that's, uh, that's called sleep

restriction strategy.

It's a proven method. It's, uh, It works great. Alright? So, uh, I mentioned more, more in my book. So

that's the sleep strategy. So, a subtitle of, uh, the sleep schedule. So we covered that, right? Now we're

going to the L. Alright? Ready? L is Low light, low temperature, low noise. The melatonin, our own

melatonin, will only be secreted in darkness and in cold temperature.

So I experiment with people to have their shades, bedrooms should be dark and quiet, and then

temperature should be experimented between 65 to 70 degrees. So that'll help. In a melatonin, the mela

means darkness, so it only secretes in darkness. So the room has to be quiet and no TV. Uh, you know,

by you, you know, no light, no light, okay?

The next E, uh, is, you guys ready? Is my favorite, electronics. So, the problem with electronics is,

especially in your bed, is when you open your phone or your tablet or whatever, the lights, without any

ambient light, it's so powerful, it hits the eye, and tells the brain, hey, it's still daytime, there's no need to

go to sleep.

So remember, You know, our hormones only secreted in darkness, so it's telling our brain, so that's

absolutely, I remove my phone, I keep it away, I don't have it near me, for many reasons, the dings, the

sounds, all that happen, I'm not bothered, and then, What has happened when you look at your phone.

Oh, it's two o'clock.

Oh, it's only two o'clock. I only slept two hours. Oh, I only have three hours. So your cognition activity is

increased. So I tell people to keep your phone, set an alarm and keep it in your bathroom. So in the

morning you literally wake up, uh, to, to go and take it. I'm done for the night, right? Easy things to do. All

right.

Big, big thing. See, the electronics, such a huge part in affecting sleep because all of us, we have our

new best friend. I call the phone as my best friend. I'm going to spend three, four hours on it. That's the

way we live. Children are using it for seven, eight hours. So where's that extra few hours coming from?

From your sleep. Everybody's taking that one, two hour extra to be on their phones by compromising on

their sleep. So I'm a I'm a big fan of restricting, uh, you know, and also tell people to not use your phone

at least 30 minutes to an hour prior to going to sleep because you're, you know, you're getting your mood

done, uh, you're in the process of, uh, of this mood, uh, you're, uh, avoiding that, okay?

The next E is exercise. Exercise creates heat, right? Heat does not Help the secretion of melatonin. So

four hours prior to workout. I tell myself proper four hours prior to sleep. I tell people not to exercise, you

know, it still stimulates cortisol Endorphins all those hormones are high temperature. You don't want high

temperatures or ease in you don't know He can't rev up your body before so this is the calming your body

Okay, so then we go into the next P.

That's Power off your mind. So now you're calming your mind. So you can do all this by not, you know,

doing the other things I told you. You know, the meal, the light, the exercise. Powering off your mind is

the most complicated or the most hardest. But if you did A, B and C, now you're able to do it and I use

my own.

Two, uh, techniques. One is called vivid imagination to sleep. So, so, so what do people do? They lay on

their bed and they worry about the real things. But I don't want people to do that. I want people to think

about their own imagination. Like if you watch the show on TV, I want you to use it, you are the director of

that show now.

I want you to use your own imagination. And I do this every night. So I, I go in and I start, and I'm going

into, drifting into, uh, into sleep. Right. So that's one. Number two is yoga nidra. Yoga nidra means we do

all kinds of yoga. Nidra means nothingness or deep sleep. That comes from the Sanskrit word. So you

lay down, have your hands up, you're in a corpse pose, you're, you're thinking about nothing.

So within, if you practice this for five, 10 minutes every night, you're calming your mind. You know your

mind, but remember I told you to calm your body and the light you have to do that Now you're you're

here. All right. So now we are moving along with No, no, it's a together word. No two worries, right?

You can't worry about Sleeping or sex, but most people are snoring or worrying, right? So no worries. I

tell people to worry between 6 p. m. and 8 p. m. I do in my own life. You know, I had to get ready for your

show. I was listening to your podcast. I do all that by 6 p. m. By 8 p. m. I write down the things I'm not

able to do.

I want people to worry, but not in bed. Worry between 6 to 8 p. m. And if you can't resolve anything, write

it down and think about it the next day. This is a great thing. You will change your life, you know as a

small business owner You know as a writer as a doctor and as a family person I have to know worries are

part of our lives.

Now, I'm not telling anybody not to worry, but make sure you worry between six. You don't bring it to bed,

right? So now the last is W, right? This is win by losing, you know? So sleep is one thing you want to do

like fast, fast, do this, but sleep, you have to, you can, you can do that. You have to win by losing yourself

in this process.

Take it easy. You know, just lay down. You know, you've done ABC. So this is my own method. It's

available on my website. I've also started a course where I explain more. It's called the Sleep Now

course. So this is how I can help people, uh, to sleep better. And this works. I've been doing this time and

time again.

You know, I worked on myself, and I've given to all my patients. They come, um, you know, do this. And I

also have sleep journals, which will be available on my website. You can document your sleep and I'm,

I'm not a big fan of the Fitbit. I, I get, I tell people to get a rough idea, but what's happening in today's

world, everybody looks at it and they worry more and they don't sleep.

Oh my God, I got only 20 percent of this sleep. What are you going to do? I gave you all the answers. If

you're not doing well, you have to think about it. You have to consult with your doctor and see if maybe

you have a sleep problem. Worrying and ruminating about these gadgets is destroying people's sleep

more than it's helping them.

That's my spiel, Gary. Oh, that's great, boy. Yeah, that's wonderful information. Thank you so much for

sharing that. The things that come to mind, first off, here's a question. I know with the electronics, um,

So, if somebody wants to use a calming sleep app where they flip the phone over and have their um, ear

pods in or whatever they're using, what about that?

Perfect. So, I tell people to do that outside the bedroom or when not in bed or in a, in a, in a chair close to

the bed. So, what happens is if you're going to do it on your bed, it is tethered to the phone. Phone. And

when you have a phone, it's a constant, just, I tell people to do that like 30 minutes prior.

Calm your mind, you know, you can listen to all that, but just set the phone out and then come to bed.

You know, that rhythm will be still in your head for about another 15 minutes. I don't want you to bring

your phone to the bed because you are always like that. What you're going to do, you're going to be

listening to the app and there's going to be a ding or something.

You're going to open up that app or check an email you don't want. I encourage people to do meditation

and prayer, but don't have a device tethered to you in bed. You with me? Do that and then get into bed.

Leave your phone in your bedroom. I'm sorry, in your bathroom, away from your bed. Uh, okay? Yeah,

no, that's helpful.

And when it comes to calming down that all makes sense, and I've heard I'm familiar with yoga nidra

Yes, and so can we? I do a lot and I encourage a lot of people that I work with to do What I would say is

a fascia release or or stretching where you're slowly breathing and you're getting rid of tension And that's

okay to do Oh, yeah, perfect.

So that's the cognitive part of cognitive behavioral therapy. I go into that also So you focus on different

areas of your body starting from your head down to your toes Just release the tension in different groups

of your muscle. That's part of progressive muscle relaxation . That's a great technique and also the

andrew wales technique of breathing a few times deep breath and focus on your breath So all this is part

of the you know, that's also it's great techniques the cognitive behavior.

That also comes in part of your mind. Uh, uh, so, but remember you, you can only do this by having done

that. You just can't see we want sleep to be an on off switch. It doesn't happen. It's a, it's a dimmer, you

know, you have to slowly dial it down. It's like a seven course meal. You know, you need to have your

salad, you need to have your music, you need to have your wine, you just can't go for the big, big, big

meal.

So it's a process. I tell people. to prepare for bed. It should start by 6 p. m. You're winding down. See, the

beauty of it is once you sleep, you can be at optimum best between 7 a. m. and 7 p. m. You can do a lot,

you know, when you have, you don't need to be, you know, behind the eight ball being struggling and

lagging and then compromising on your sleep and then we're all in that vicious cycle.

Yeah. No, what you said to, I'm trying to figure out like kind of the order of things in my mind at listening

to you, I love like doing your, whatever you want to call it, personal inventory, getting rid of the worries,

you know, doing your, um, closing of your business. Um, Before eight or seven, whatever it is, getting

that done, then if you were to want to read, whether it's a book, your Bible, whatever it is, it's, it's better

to, would you do that first and then do like calming type activities like you're stretching after that?

Or would you? Stretch first and then read. What do you think? So I would, you know, first is, uh, calming

your body. So I would stretch, uh, and you know, you're done with all the exercise, you know, stretching is

good, but not that high intensity, you know, HIIT, high intensity interval training. You can do it. I do it first

thing in the morning.

I'm, I'm awake at six and I do my, hit whatever in the morning, but not in the evening. So that's more like

stretching. And then you can read your Bible. You can read a book. Uh, you know, then it's a whole

process, it's an act, uh, you know, I tell people it's a four hour process, six to ten you're getting ready and

ten to six you're sleeping.

So that's the, the, the best strategy, it will, it will work. So calm the body first. Yes. And I'm not talking

about hip stretching. I'm talking about diaphragmatic types releasing tension, um, from the body. So very

slow and doing that before you read. Is what you're saying and then ultimately lying in bed at one point

and just focusing and of course entering in the diaphragmatic type breath to this process, um, it's going

to be helpful and I love the new thing is that this imagination is vivid imagination part that you had is

interesting.

So you kind of. Just give us a little tip on on what what you kind of go a little further with that piece That's

new to me like understanding that like so what the concept of women imagination is all always there But

you're taking it for sleeping I'm the first guy to do to make it my own and because I have used it at so

many of all my years And I've taught my patients and they all love it.

So like if you're watching a series on Netflix or whatever, you know, different episodes. So you become

the director. So what we do normally, we take the worries and think about it in our bed. See, remember?

So you're here, I want you to, your worries or thought process into that, what happens to the hero or

heroine, whatever, the worries, into your own imagination.

Not the reality. I want you to go into the abstract and lead into this. You know, sleep is simple, but it's, it's,

it's mysterious, it's magical, it's so much, you know, we heal in our sleep, we dream. Uh, so I want you,

you be the director of, of something in the abstract. Not, that's imagination. You don't want the reality in

your bed.

You know, you want to think about stuff, stuff, uh, you know, whatever happened to that child. If you want

to use, use your, use your own imagination and you will lead into a new world that's out there. And I

would, I would guess, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but we're kind of aiming in the more joyful realm,

calming realm, things that are going to be pleasant when we do this.

Yeah. That's the process of calming your mind. That's the only way. Sleep is, you can't get it in a fast

pass. You have to take it easy. You know, that's, you can get everything by working hard. You know, if

you want to build muscles, you're over there working, working, working, you know, you're working extra

hours, you're doing all that stuff in a hurry, but sleep has to take it.

You know, that's the absolute paradox. The superpower, you have to, to get, come to it in a slow, uh, you

know, soothing manner. You can't do it as an on off switch. Yeah, no, this is great. And it's obviously an

art that you have perfected. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And so, so, you know, here's a couple other things

that come to mind.

This has been great, but I'm also wondering, like, When we just take our cumulative sleep, let's say, I

have two questions. One, if we're going to get like eight hours in one night, does it affect us if we get up

in the middle of that one time and then go back to sleep? Because I've heard mixed things about that.

Yeah, we are all, you know, we all wake up because you see, remember, sleep is a dynamic, the cycles.

So you're more as this, as the shift happens up and down, you are more. Chance to be woken up and

then as we grow older, we have to use the bathroom You know, then there's some noise of the dog

barking So then what I tell people is to you know, keep the sleep shape you just you don't look at the

phone Don't look at the clock just keep the shape, you know If you have to use the restroom do it come

back and just close your eye I mean it happened to me last night You know I just when I do what I tell

people and if in sometimes if you know It happens to all of us if you wake up and can't go to sleep Leave

the room, go watch TV.

In the past, I never told people to watch TV. Now I tell them because TV is better than phone because

there's ambient light, you know. So, phone, phone is the absolute challenge. I do that, you know, it

happens to me once or twice a year. I say, hey, what do I tell everybody? Go leave the room. I go watch

my show and then come back and then go back to sleep.

See, I, you know, I suffered from insomnia. You know, in med school, nobody sleeps. And then when my

mom died, I couldn't sleep. And then when I started this new business, you know, started my own

company, I couldn't sleep. But, you know, I know how it feels not to sleep well. But if you have a basic

Principle, so I'm even more passionate teaching young children because once you have that, so I

dedicated two chapters for, for, for children to sleep better because once you got it, you, because we're

going to fall because this is the world we live in, worries, you know, all the pressures, you know, loss,

tragedies, divorce, all that happens, but then it's like, We have to, I call it sleep proof yourself and

discover the superpower because, you know, it heals.

It does so many things in our sleep. So I'm able to resonate that I can spot an insomniac far away, you

know, from the skin, from their mood, from their attitude, even, you know, we know when the child and

that child needs a nap. We know that. So. Oh, wow. And so like, yeah, because so, so what you're

saying too, like, so if.

We sleep for four hours, get up. There's nothing wrong with that. Go back to sleep. It's still going to be,

you're still going to be okay. And even if it's a habit, like something that happens regularly, you're, as long

as you're getting the eight hours or seven hours, you're, you're, you're okay. Okay. If you feel good the

next day after sleeping that, you know, so, you know, I want everybody to see, I'm not trying to sell

something.

There's no magic bullet out there. If anybody's going to say that, then I'm not, you know, selling some,

you know. We want quick fix, but we have that within us, which is going to, which is going to hold us

good for the rest of our lives, you know, the, uh, I mean, sometimes I do have prescribed pills to my

patients who are going through acute grief or some tragic, but not on a long term.

I take patients who are on chronic pills away from them by teaching them by discovering your own

potential. And if, if you get up earlier, like let's say you get up at 5 a. m., do you recommend getting to

sleep by 9 p. m.? Uh, depends on how you do. If you feel like waking up at 9, I mean 5 in the morning

and you're, you need that.

So if you're, no man, it's too early, then you change your clock. You see what I'm saying? So if you are,

some people want to be, you know, early risers because they want to get their workout done. Yeah. Or

they have to do certain things, you know, busy moms, you have to get everything ready. That's fine. But if

you're feeling, you know, after seven hours of sleep every night, you're feeling good, then you're doing

something right.

Keep it. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's good to know because it sounds like it's not black or white. There's

some gray areas and just listening to your body, I'm hearing a lot about being mindful, paying attention,

and, uh, um, sleep disorders, like the main ones you see. I know that you mentioned sleep apnea.

Just kind of, I'd be curious to know a little bit more about what the major ones are and starting with that.

But I'm familiar with that a lot over the years, you know. Sleep problems are very simple, um, Gary,

either you don't sleep, which is insomnia, or you sleep too much. Okay. So, so we, I gave you the

solution of.

Insomnia. So that's the, you know, the sleep now acronym. So, are you sleeping too much because you

have a sleep problem? So, the most common is sleep apnea. The word before sleep apnea is called

obstructive sleep apnea. Literally, there's an obstruction. The tongue, which is the main culprit, falls

backwards and closes the area and the brain wakes you up.

So even though you sleep eight hours, You're woken up multiple times. Like literally somebody waking

you up to keep you alive. It's, uh, it's subconscious, but the brain, if you see the brain EEG activity there,

you know, everybody's woken up. So that's, so you wake up, you're tired the next day. So that's the

number one cause of fatigue in middle aged, uh, folks who are tired, right?

So, uh, and then there are other conditions like hypersomnia and narcolepsy in young people, uh,

because that's a chemical. Deficiency of the awake chemical. That's, uh, that's a separate topic, but for

adults, it's sleep apnea. So then there are other disorders as common as restless legs in the evening,

you're not able to sleep, or you kick your legs at night.

It's called the periodic limb movement disorder. That keeps you awake at night. And then the most

dreaded, it's more common in men, it's called REM behavior disorder where people act out their dreams

in REM sleep. Your, your, your body is completely paralyzed in, in, in REM sleep except your diaphragm

and your eye muscles.

Uh, like if you, you can see your dogs come sometimes twitch or they can, you can see the eye

movements. Other than that, most of the muscles are paralyzed, but some people act out their dreams.

I've had people come in and punch their spouses more commonly. I've seen it in women, but it's very

common, more common in men.

It's called REM behavior disorder. So in summary, you dealt with insomnia. If you sleep too much in

younger, younger folks, you either have idiopathic hypersomnia or narcolepsy in middle age and older

folks, you probably have sleep apnea with. Or you can have other common conditions like restless legs,

periodic limb movement during sleep, or REM behavior disorder.

These are the major, of course there are many other disorders, but these will, you know, about 90-95

percent of the problems.

Like sleep apnea, you get a sleep test. Is that what you do? Correct. I'm a big fan of home sleep studies.

You know, in the past, everybody's worried about going to the lab. Now you just have a watch-like device.

That's what I use called a watchpad device. I make people wear the watch and they sleep in their own

bed and they come into my office.

I plug the device. I'm able to quickly edit and correct a few things and then you have an answer. You

have a treatment the next day. So for anybody listening today, If that needed a sleep test, they could go

to your website, which I'm going to include in this episode and, and, and so forth. Yes. Get that

information.

Correct. Yes. Oh, that's great. I've given many resources. This is all new to me, but I think by the time

your show is aired, we might have it all up. So we're building all this. It's, uh, it's been an exciting journey,

you know, I, I have the joy in my life by sleeping better. I want to share it to the world because you can,

you can do a lot more by sleeping better.

It's, it's within you, you know, you don't, it's there, it's free, it's there for the taking. Why not discover it?

Yeah. No, your passion is contagious. And I mean, this has been great. And yeah. Yeah. It's. Because it

sounds like, just like anything, it requires the building of habits. So, and then perfecting those habits

when it comes to your sleep, why not make that a goal?

I know I'm going to be focusing on that after listening to this. And I know a lot of people out there

hopefully have been encouraged by this. This is great. So it's a problem. Uh, uh, but because of the

times we're living in, uh, and we are, we are compromising our sleep. We, you know, can you imagine a

drowsy driver or a student who's not studying and not to mention sleep apnea, health problems

associated with sleep apnea, diabetes, high blood pressure, and that can lead to heart problems or

stroke, memory problems.

You're, you're always in a brain fog. Just by treating sleep apnea, you can alter the course of, uh, the

progression of dementia. You know, you know, there's one other treatable called low libido men. A lot of

men come because of low testosterone. When you have sleep apnea, uh, you're not making enough

testosterone.

So, that's a treatable cause for erectile dysfunction. Instead of taking shots, there's a cause for that. You

know, how, how about that? Uh, so, so, you know, it affects all parts of the, and of course, the atrial

fibrillation, the heart goes, it beats faster because your breathing is, so it affects all parts of the body.

Um, you know, everybody needs to be screened, uh, if you're not sleeping well or sleep too much,

especially in middle age, uh, so that we can get treatment. Oh, this is great and one other thing just

came to my mind, you know, what about naps? Are they, do they count towards your total sleep or is that

something you recommend?

Um, what do you think about that? Great question. I love naps. Uh, so naps in a healthy person is very,

very important. I nap when I can, especially in between the right time, between 1. 30, 3. 30. That's the

natural lull of your body. Our body is at, at, at our lowest between two and four in the morning and two

and four in the afternoon.

That's the normal circadian rhythm. Guess what? Look, look what we're doing. Yes, we take a siesta. We

take a coffee break or a tea time all over the world. So have you ever gone to a meeting at 2: 30 in the

afternoon? No, because we are subconsciously doing things without our knowledge.

But guess what? We are maximum best Between 7 a. m. and 7 p. m. That's when our circadian rhythm

and our body's at maximum focus. But if you're tired at 7 a. m. or 7 p. m., we have a problem. That

means you have, your body's telling you something. Look, it's called prime time for a reason. The TV

people know why they're doing it.

And we go to all meetings at 7 in the morning, right? So, uh, so naps In a sleep deprived person, like

someone who's suffering from insomnia, when I'm trying to create a sleep debt and a sleep schedule, I

tell them not to nap. Right? Yeah. But if you're a healthy person, napping is when my mom always tells

me to nap, and I Even now, when my family's like, where is It's dad, he's sleeping, you know, on the

weekends, whenever I can, he's so healthy.

But also, here's a little caveat, there was a recent journal, uh, article from the British Medical Journal

which says, napping increases brain volume, and I got all sorts of phone calls, you know, especially

people on the insomnia program, I tell them not to nap, hey, say, Dr. John, I heard this, but a regular

person, it's nap.

But also the beauty of a nap, it has to be a maximum of 15 -30 minutes. So, that 30, 40, maximum 45

minutes. So, but if you are sleeping more than an hour, that means you are asleep dead. The body is

trying to tell you something. So, if you're napping too much, napping frequently, then you have a problem.

So, you have to watch out for that.

You know, a healthy nap should be 15, 30 minutes. So, great question. I'm a huge fan of napping normal

people. Wow. So a nap is 15 to 30 minutes, not over that. Correct. Okay. And if you're going past, if

you're going past one hour, you are, you have a sleep that you need to answer your body and then you

have to ask, you know, people, those are some of the subtle clues.

If you have heart problems, lung problems, if you have sleep apnea, that means you're napping too

much. Your body's telling you, Hey, I, I need that. Uh, so you, yeah.

Wow. Wow. Well, I just wanna thank you so much for coming on today. This has been wonderful. Yes.

And. So much value and I, um, I, like I said, I have included, um, Dr. John's website in this episode today

is the sleepfixacademy.com so you can go and check that out. And remember we do new episodes

every week on Wednesday and I look forward to having you join me then.

Yes. Carrie. And thank you for the opportunity. I'm Dr. Sleep Fix. I've taken the name, uh, Sleep Fix on all

the social media handles, whether it's TikTok or Instagram.

If you search me, uh, follow me, I've given weekly links. I've made this my life's mission to heal people, to

sleep better, and I want everybody to feel the joy. This is no pill, no magic. It's your

own power. Once you discover that, the world is yours. So let's go, let's go sleeping, Carrie.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

All right. Nice to talk to you. Thank you.